way_phat's profile

45 Messages

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780 Points

Wed, Mar 5, 2014 4:15 PM

Closed

Not planned

Camera Raw: Make Camera Raw filter CMYK compatible.

Upgraded to PS CC. Very disappointed to discover than in spite of the new CR filter, I still have to use Dr Brown's 'Edit Layer in ACR' script to use Camera Raw within a CMYK file.

Is there a reason his script can do it but it can't be done natively?

The reason this is an issue for me is the use of the script can't be utilized as an action whereas the filter can.

Official Solution

Employee

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637 Messages

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11.6K Points

8 y ago

As Steve explained, our imaging pipeline in Camera Raw is entirely RGB-based. You can import CMYK data but internally it will be converted to RGB.

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

8 y ago

I'm sure the CR engine is RGB only.

The workaround, for an entire document, is to convert things to 16-bit ProPhotoRGB, do your work using the CR filter, and then convert back to CMYK.

Since typical paper-based CMYK colorspaces are so much smaller than ACR's internal ProPhotoRGB-like workspace, there will be an issue of what to do with the colors that fall outside of the relatively small paper-based CMYK gamut:

45 Messages

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780 Points

8 y ago

"I'm sure the CR engine is RGB only. "

Steven, take a look at this:
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/Edit...

Via that script it works w/in the cmyk space. I'm asking them to provide the same functionality from the filter approach.

FWIW, I also tried, in RGB, converting the layer to a smart object, running the CR filter, and then converting to cmyk, but the CR filter results are lost in the conversion.

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

8 y ago

That extension is just copying the pixels of the layer to a temporary tiff file called Smart Raw Temp.tif, which you can see the name of below the main ACR window, and then doing things in ACR, then copying the pixels from that temporary file back into the layer.

I'm sure if you use that extension on a CMYK layer, it'll convert to RGB before opening up ACR on the temporary TIF file, then convert back to CMYK before copying the pixels from the file back into the layer.

You can do the same thing by hand in PS by copying the layer pixels, creating a new document, pasting into that new document, converting the new document to RGB, opening up the CR filter on that, and when you're done with the adjustments, convert it back to CMYK and paste the pixels back into the layer in the original document.

Either of these processes are very different to Adobe making the CR filter work with CMYK data, directly.

45 Messages

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780 Points

8 y ago

You can do the same thing by hand in PS by copying the layer pixels, creating a new document, pasting into that new document, converting the new document to RGB, opening up the CR filter on that, and when you're done with the adjustments, convert it back to CMYK and paste the pixels back into the layer in the original document.

Of course I could do that. I'm a retoucher, I know how to make things harder on myself, if that were my goal. Instead I'm looking for Adobe to help in automating the use of ACR, to make things more expedient. I'm not opposed to their use of proxy files/data, if that's what's needed.

Re-editable, usable in a cmyk document, and automateable . Dr Brown did the first two -- now I'm asking them to take it the rest of the way by making it actionable.

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

8 y ago

In answer to your original question about what it can be done in script and not natively, is that the two approaches are very different, despite being conceptually similar up to a point.

The "reason" is cost-benefit. How many more subscriptions will they sell by dedicating some dozens or hundreds of "man hours" to adding such a feature.

Your original requesting of wanting ACR to work with CMYK documents seems valid, though, but one request, alone, doesn't stand much chance.

Many more people asking for it, or Adobe needing to do it for some new marketable feature, are probably necessary before it'd be considered.
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Are you batch-processing a set of images with no human intervention and need an ACR step in the middle of the processing to work against various image types, or are you in PS doing things by hand, but have several steps in an action that you run on most or all images, and ACR is one of those steps in that action?

Is the conversion to RGB and back to CMYK something you can't do in your action because it needs to operate on just one layer of a more complex image?

Or are the images in question a single background layer, but the conversion wouldn't be appropriate to do on images that aren't CMYK so the issue is one of pre-sorting images into ones that need to conversion and ones that don't?

45 Messages

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780 Points

8 y ago

Hi Steven,

First off, thanks for your desire to help. Second, I agree with your assessment on Adobe's lack for motivation on this, and pretty much any other cmyk-centric request.
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I am provided a batch of flat RGB tifs )photographs) with a silo path. As per my specification, the files are developed [i]slightly[/i] deep and flat, giving good detail that I can tweak for tone. color and clarity. Each file ultimately get's individualized treatement, however I use a batch action to setup my file with frequently used groups and adjustment layers. One of those adjustments is a channel mix move involving the K channel, which obviously needs to be performed in cmyk mode. I ultimately need to hand back to the client a SWOP file, with a silo-ed foreground layer and a separate shadow layer. Tone, contrast, color correction, cloning, transformations and beautification are performed on an image by image basis after my setup and conversion action are run.

In an ideal world, one of my batch actioned setup adjustment layers would be a CR filter preset performed on a smart object, such that it is re-editable inside the cmyk document I currently do this [i]after[/i] running the setup action using Dr Brown's script. The snag is this, I have to have the Camera Raw preference to work on tiffs off when running my setup action, lest it strip the paths from the document, but then must turn that pref on to run the script inside the document. It's slightly cumbersome to off/off the prefs and open CR for each file, compared to how easy it would be if I could action/bath an CR preset within my setup action. Especially given the volume of images and retouching per image I can face per day.

I'm sure my description here is incomplete and hard to follow. It's okay, there's no simple solution. I've played with and considered my options from several angles. There's no simple fix. However, for my needs it would be great if Adobe could do 1 or both of 2 things. 1) Allow me to make CR adjustments en batch from Bridge (which I can do now) which can be transferred to Photoshop without stripping the paths (which can't be done now), or 2) allow the CR filter to be run in Photoshop in cmyk mode. Either solution would serve me well. Both together would be fantastic.

45 Messages

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780 Points

8 y ago

After all this, I'm onto a kludgy but workable solution.

In my CMYK file I can convert my layer to a Smart Object, open the SO and convert it to RGB and again into a SO. Then run CR as a smart filter. I'm thus running the RGB filter on a SO RGB document within a CMYK file. And since the CR settings have been run as a smart filter they are re-editable upon reopening the SO.

I'm satisfied enough. Thanks for making the CR filter, Adobe.

2 Messages

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70 Points

8 y ago

way phat:

I have the same problem with RGB photo, converting the layer to a smart object(filter), running the CR filter, and then converting to cmyk, but the CR filter results are lost in the conversion.

I follow your instruction, but after I convert to cmyk, the result still lost in conversation. Would you please clarify your step. I am using CC Photoshop. I need all the final photos to cmyk for 4 color printing.

Thanks

Champion

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2.6K Messages

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33.7K Points

8 y ago

You shouldn't be converting back to CMYK. There are two levels of Smart Objects:

CMYK Layer: Layer / Convert to Smart Object
CMYK Layer: Double-click the Smart Object layer which opens a New PDB Document
New PSB Document: Image / Mode / RGB
New PSB Document: Layer / Convert to Smart Object
New PSB Document: Filter / Camera Raw Filter...
ACR Filter: make adjustments
ACR Filter: Click Ok
New PSB Document: File / Save, File / Close
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Now you're back in the CMYK document that has an RGB Layer Smart Object with the Camera Raw Filter applied to it.

To refine the settings of the Camera Raw filter, merely double click the CMYK Layer to open its smart object PSB document, then double-click the Camera Raw Filter of the smart object stack, again.

2 Messages

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70 Points

8 y ago

Steve,

Thank you! I worked on my photos successfully today according to your clean instructions. You save me a lot of time, and I learn a good lesson from you.

Thanks again!