John_R_Ellis's profile
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Tue, Jul 30, 2019 5:51 AM

Lightroom/Camera Raw: Bad blending from Photo Merge > Panorama, while Photoshop does fine

LR 8.3.1 Photo Merge > Panorama (Cylindrical) does a bad job of blending this panorama:



But Edit In > Merge To Panorama In Photoshop (Reposition) does a fine job:



The panoramas and original photos can be downloaded from here: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ic42owt5has915j/lr-pano-bug-2019-07-29.zip?dl=0

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2 y ago

John, I am seeing the same merge you are.  Tried Classic, Desktop and Camera Raw and they all yield the same result. I will forward this to the Camera Raw team.  Can you leave your dropbox files active for us?

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Yup, I'll leave them there until the problem is addressed.

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2 y ago

Another example (similar scene, similar haze), in case it helps: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fis5k7k04hfxxa3/lr-pano-blend-2019-07-31.zip?dl=0

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2 y ago

John,

We got to the bottom this.  This camera has a built in ND filter that can be automatically enabled. Camera Raw, and the Lightroom Desktop Clients are thrown by this. Photoshop treats the constituent files as rendered instead of as raw so that's why it doesn't exhibit the same issue. We have a fix in process for an upcoming release for CR and LrD, LrClassic. 

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Excellent, thanks. I believe the ND filter is on by default. 

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2 y ago

I'd be curious to know what camera this was shot with, John(that has a built-in ND filter)!

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It's a Sony RX100 V.

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2 y ago

I had the same exact issue with panorama sets shot with a Canon G9X MKII. It has a -3 EV ND filter that kicks in when the shutter speed is near maximum. I use Lens Tagger to change the shutter speed by 8x.

EDIT: I forgot to add if Adobe fixes this you'll need return these image files back to their original shutter speed. I suggest keywording any files you change with 'ND 8x Shutter Speed Corrected' or something similar. That way you can easily find and correct them in the future.

https://www.lenstagger.com/

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Todd, Want to send me a couple of files with your Canon with the ND Filter engaged and we will verify that we are handling that correctly?
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Thanks Rikk. Here is a panorama shot with four files. The IMG_2404.CR2 and IMG_2405.CR2 files have the 3.0 ND filter applied in-camera and the other three do not. The shutter speed shows as 1/250 and 1/200, which should be 1/2000 and 1/1600 without the ND filter. Using LensTagger to change the shutter speed corrects the issue.

Please let me know if you need any other information.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o8ocr85nuc55gc0/AAD4jdQTiyRwvyuL3CY8Zmuna?dl=0

(edited)

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Thanks!
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6 m ago

@Rikk: "We have a fix in process for an upcoming release for CR and LrD, LrClassic."

Was a fix ever released? I retested in LR 10.2, and I see a significant improvement for the two Sony examples but no improvement for the Canon example.

(edited)

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Sony example 1:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ic42owt5has915j/lr-pano-bug-2019-07-29.zip?dl=0 

LR 8.3.1:

LR 10.2:
Photoshop:

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@John_R_Ellis  the  bug is still under investigation and no fix has been issued. The bug was written against cr2 files.

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Rikk, thanks for the update. I can confirm that the panorama ND filter issue appears to be fixed in LrC 10.2 with the Sony RX100M5 ARW panorama files John posted. The Canon G9X MKII panorama files still exhibit the issue in LrC 10.2. It begs the question as to what changed since LrC 8.3.1.

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6 m ago

I just checked a panorama set and used LensTagger to correct for the ND filter factor (-3EV). I tried both changing the 'F-Stop' and then just the 'Exposure Time.' Neither of these corrections fixes the issue as it did with LrC 8.x. So it appears Adobe is using some other fields for calculating the Exposure inside Photo Merge to Panorama with LrC 10.2. Here's an example file with ND filter. Using LensTagger I changed the F-Stop from 2.8 to 8 and Exposure Time from 1/400 to 1/3200 to see what fields are changed.

---- ExifTool ----
ExifTool Version Number         : 11.33
---- EXIF ----
File Name                       : IMG_3187.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/3200
F Number                        : 8.0
Shutter Speed Value             : 1/403
Aperture Value                  : 2.8
---- MakerNotes ----
Target Exposure Time            : 1/403
F Number                        : 8
Exposure Time                   : 1/3251
ND Filter                       : On
---- Composite ----
Aperture                        : 8.0
Shutter Speed                   : 1/3200

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"Neither of these corrections fixes the issue"

I've discovered that LR 10's Photo Merge caches the exposure metadata for photos, and that cached data isn't updated when you Metadata > Read Metadata From File or even if you remove the photos from the catalog and reimport them.  The only was to clear the cache is by restarting LR before doing a new merge.

This bug confused me greatly and led me to a similar mistaken conclusion about which exposure metadata fields LR was using.

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6 m ago

Using LR 10.2 with Todd's Canon example:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o8ocr85nuc55gc0/AAD4jdQTiyRwvyuL3CY8Zmuna?dl=0

Photo Merge produces a good result if you adjust EXIF:ExposureTime by 1/8 for the two photos that had the ND filter applied:

Without adjustment (similar to the 8.3.1 result):

With adjustment:

Before adjustment:

======== IMG_2404.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/250
ND Filter                       : On
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125
======== IMG_2405.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/1600
ND Filter                       : On
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125
======== IMG_2406.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/1250
ND Filter                       : Off
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125
======== IMG_2407.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/1000
ND Filter                       : Off
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125

After adjustment:

======== IMG_2404.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/2000
ND Filter                       : On
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125
======== IMG_2405.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/12800
ND Filter                       : On
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125
======== IMG_2406.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/1250
ND Filter                       : Off
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125
======== IMG_2407.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/1000
ND Filter                       : Off
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125

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Also, setting NDFilter=Off with Exiftool for all the photos doesn't affect the result.

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6 m ago

Thank you John for the thorough analysis! Concerning the files at the Dropbox link one of the files has its Exposure Time modified as shown below. The as shot Exposure time is actually 1/200 so the -3EV correction should be 1/1600. I apologize for the error and have corrected the IMG_2405.CR2 file at the Dropbox link.

I can confirm that changing the Exposure Time for IMG_2404.CR2 to 1/2000 and IMG_2404.CR2 to 1/1600 with a LrC restart for each change works and fixes the issue! I wonder why that wasn't necessary using LrC 8.x? At least we have a workaround. Thanks again!

======== IMG_2405.CR2
Exposure Time                   : 1/1600
ND Filter                       : On
Aperture                        : 2.8
ISO                             : 125

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"The as shot Exposure time is actually 1/200 so the -3EV correction should be 1/1600."

I wondered about that -- 1/12800 seemed awfully fast for the scene and didn't match the other exposures!  But it's interesting that LR is still able to blend well even with 1/12800.   Based on this and my Sony examples, something has surely changed in Photo Merge's blending since 8.3.

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Adobe may have changed the weighting on how it determines and matches exposure across the image files. Theoretically as it generates the control points for stitching it could use the difference in exposure of the control point pairs to apply exposure correction to match the files. It wouldn't even need to read the EXIF data. Clearly that's not not happening with the Canon G9X MKII CR2 files in LrC 10.2.

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5 m ago

The issue with the ND filters still exist in LR Classic 10.2 Camera Raw 13.2 for the Sony RX100-III camera. See https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/panoramic-merge-issue-with-automatic-neutral-density-filter-settings/m-p/12063895#M232243 with attached reduced size example files. The full size files can be downloaded from https://1drv.ms/u/s!Am5b14taaIpoxAS_b-E2kdw1UcOl?e=zLqAkw