chrismarquardt's profile

20 Messages

 • 

1.5K Points

Tue, Mar 6, 2012 2:16 PM

Lightroom: LR4 doesn't display point curve adjustments made in LR3

After updating from LR3, LR4 has reset my tone curves. I use custom tone curves on almost every picture, and all my contrast treatments this way seem to have gone. Initially the previews were still the old ones, so I only noticed after opening several pictures in the develop module, just to see my meticulous tone curve adjustments be removed.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Employee

 • 

32 Messages

 • 

1.8K Points

10 y ago

We're currently working on a solution to this problem. Please let me know if you would like to be contacted via email to help us test this solution before we distribute it more broadly.

Regards,
Tom Hogarty
Lightroom Product Manager

1 Message

 • 

62 Points

I have a second Lr3 catalog I can use for testing

10 Messages

 • 

174 Points

yes please, contact me, thanks

20 Messages

 • 

1.5K Points

yes please

14 Messages

 • 

182 Points

Yes, I would be happy to help.

3 Messages

 • 

92 Points

I would appreciate that, too.
Glad to help on this one.

20 Messages

 • 

1.5K Points

10 y ago

Thanks Tom, I would love to get my hands on the fixed test version, so please contact me by email and I'd be happy to help to test.

3 Messages

 • 

92 Points

10 y ago

Just installed LR4 and converted my catalog. Then I read the article in Chris' blog.

I immediately checked my installation and indeed I experience just the same bug.

All my tone curves are completely off although I did not even convert a single image to the new processing engine.
Hence there is nothing we can do to keep LR3 pictures with altered curves without reediting them again.
This is obviously not acceptable.

I can't believe no one really noticed that before.

Please fix this bug ASAP!

14 Messages

 • 

182 Points

10 y ago

Sounds good. Just drop me an e-mail. I will be in at home this evening and I would be happy to test the hotfix and to help this problem to be fixed soon.

By the way, the old catalog v3 doesn't seem to be affected by the import procedure. Is that right? And I can overwrite a catalog with a backup catalog?

10 Messages

 • 

174 Points

10 y ago

I've probably found a sort of workaround!
I've made some "organized" tests and here I report my findings.
Using LR3.5, I prepared a "test catalog" using 4 images from 7 different cameras (28 images total): for each of them, I used both the original nef and the dng converted file (56 files in the catalog), all develop process was set to "2010".
The cameras were Nikon D70, D90, D200, D300s, D700, D5000, D7000.
I applied a strong tone curve to each image in a way that the appearance was heavily characterized.
Before exit LR3.5, I SAVED ALL THE METADATA TO THE FILES.
Opening and converting the catalog using LR4, doesn't show any visual change until I zoom in library or open the develop module: both these operation lead to a flat image with the strong tone curve lost.
Curiously, the history retains the original steps but they are ineffective: histogram and tone curve changes according to the visual change but for some camera the "new" tone curve is "medium contrast", for others (D5000, D90) is "linear", for D300s is "custom" (linear with blacks cut at 9.8%, and this explain my initial impression that D300s's curves were untouched, sorry). This last behavior may depend on the fact that I've different default develop settings depending on the camera serial number.
Finally, the update to the 2012 process only minimally changes the visual appearance and surely doesn't restore the lost tone curves.
And here is the UNEXPECTED WORKAROUND: doing a READ METADATA FROM FILES IT RESTORES THE TONE CURVES (and the 2010 process)! Upgrading the process to 2012 minimally changes the visual appearance again but now the strong tone curve is present and evident.

10 Messages

 • 

174 Points

10 y ago

Please note that the above workaround restores the original tone curves but the history steps remain wrong (without a real effect) and you loose the ability to go back in the develop process step by step. Obviously you can reset the setting and restart with the default ones.

2 Messages

 • 

72 Points

10 y ago

you may contact me to test the solution before distribution

10 Messages

 • 

174 Points

10 y ago

in the Lightroom Adobe Forum
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/971408
Michael Frye noticed that this way you can restore the tone curves for the "real" images but not for VIRTUAL ones. The following is an (unpractical) workaround for managing virtual images.
You can add a "buffer" image (a real one!) to both the LR3 and LR4 catalogs then, with both Lightroom opened:
1. in LR3, copy and past develop settings from the first virtual image to the buffer (real) one, then "write xmp data to file";
2. In LR4, "read metadata from file" for the real image, copy develop settings from it and paste them to the same virtual image.
Obviously you can use only one buffer image for all your virtual images but ... good luck if their number is more then 10... ;-)

14 Messages

 • 

224 Points

10 y ago

I see the problem as well.
I ad some particular pictures where I played a lot with the tone curve.
When I clicked on the filmstrip on that image the tone curve was gone and the picture reverted back to no tone curve at all.... :(
Marco

56 Messages

 • 

1K Points

10 y ago

This wouldn't have been possible with proper beta testing procedures.

23 Messages

 • 

322 Points

10 y ago

Seems to be bug in the way LR 4 treats Default settings from LR3. I used these to set a linear tone curve for every picture. If this was subsequently changed in any way (with my workflow by Synchronising Settings) then it seems to convert okay.

If I hadn't changed the tone curve from the defaults then LR4, reverts it to the current defaults - ie a Medium Contrast curve.

Sometimes I can get around this by resaving my defaults for a camera in LR4, but not always.

A work around that seems to always work is to convert the LR3 catalog into LR4. Then go back to the LR3 catalog and Save the Metadata of the selected images to xmp files (Photo>Save Metadata to File)then in LR4 Import Metadata From File.

Bizarrely you need to convert the catalog into LR4 before saving the LR3 metadata, you can't just do this from the existing xmp!

This does give an import from disc entry in the history though, so not a perfect work around. Best to wait for Tom Hogarty's workaround.

(Tom, please contact me on steve at stevedavey dot com if you would like me to trail the fix.)

Steve

54 Messages

 • 

2K Points

10 y ago

This has nothing to do with default settings in LR3.
LR4 just does not read the LR3-database entries, but overwrite them as if it would be a new import.

Forcing LR4 to read metadata from file of course overwrites that again, if you have something to read from. Which you don't in case of virtual copies.

The workaround is to save to xmp while still in LR3, before any catalog conversion.
And import your LR3-catalog into LR4 only once this crazy bug will be fixed.

14 Messages

 • 

182 Points

Sorry, but that's not right. I always worked with xmp in LR3 and I have this bug, too.

I imported the catalog from LR3 and all my curves were lost although I used xmp all the time!

Sure, perhaps I could have LR4 read all the metadata now for all of my pictures but... is it save? Will the settings be set right? Do I want to risk any strange behaviour of LR4 again and loose all my time?

I bought a program not a workaround.

948 Messages

 • 

13.9K Points

Just wait for Adobe to provide a solution, as Tom said above.

54 Messages

 • 

2K Points

You did not use your LR3-xmp, when you upgraded the catalog by LR4.
That just converted the LR3-catalog recoreds into LR4-catalog records, with the exception of the tone curve settings. Which why there is now a default value in, no matter which PV.

My statement is correct. But I would not consider it safe.
My best advice is: cherish your last LR3-catalog version and go to LR3 if you need something from it.
Use LR4 only for new imports, if at all.

I share your frustration. Especially Adobe's approach to their friendly supportive beta-testing community: why did they have to shut them out of catalog-upgrade testing?! This is arrogance.
And now all customers pay for it.

14 Messages

 • 

182 Points

The good thing is, that the import of the LR3 catalog into LR4 doesn't modify the LR3 catalog. You just have to check the pictures you selected in LR4 after the import and take a look in LR3 if any settings were modified by LR4. I have read Chris' post very early so I was able to prevent LR4 from modifying my metadata.

I can understand Adobe. They want to keep their product safe. But... then I expect some faster reaction to such critical bugs.

I bought a product and can't use it. If it would be a car, that car would have been taken back to the car dealer. No matter if the product is cheap or established compared to others. It's a matter of trust.

6 Messages

 • 

116 Points

Seriously, it's been almost a week. I bought LR4 before the weekend because I expected to be transferring files and editing my next shoot in LR4.

113 Messages

 • 

1.6K Points

10 y ago

Honestly, I do not think this is serious, as I believe there's no permanent damage done as long as you keep your old catalog. But it is annoying and embarrassing for the guys at Adobe's. Anyway, please take your time and fix it properly. And keep us happy by updating us on the progress. Also, if you need someone to test, I volunteer.
Cheers
Henrik

Employee

 • 

32 Messages

 • 

1.8K Points

10 y ago

Update: Those that have volunteered to help test a solution should have received an email from me earlier today with a proposed fix. I'll gather feedback on that solution and we'll then work to distribute it more widely.

Regards,
Tom Hogarty
Lightroom Product Manager

23 Messages

 • 

322 Points

Hi Tom, was one of those who volunteered to help test a solution, but haven't received any email with a script on it. I have a catalog with some 60,000 RAW images in it, and am more than happy to run any script on it to see what is the story.

many of these images had their tone curves changed when I did the first conversion.

Cheers,
Steve

10 Messages

 • 

174 Points

Hi Tom, I tried the script on a test catalog containing nef, dng, and virtual images from different cameras: i worked perfectly.
I'm a Mac user with Lion 10.7.3.
Regards

Mauro Morando

14 Messages

 • 

224 Points

Hello Tom,
the scripts for me works like a charm.
Thanks a lot!
Marco Zuppone

113 Messages

 • 

1.6K Points

10 y ago

Oh, I see. Just a day to late :) Good luck with the fix!