margaret_burke_5091352's profile

15 Messages

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270 Points

Sun, Aug 11, 2013 7:10 PM

Photoshop: CS6 initializes and re-initializes type tool several times

Photoshop CS6 - I get it, I have a lot of fonts so the window that says Initializing Type Tool takes a while. What I don't get is why, after all of the type samples have been set up (judging from the contents of the type menus), does it apparently start over? Several times? Looks like a bug to me.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

8 y ago

Have you installed all the Photoshop CS6 updates?
And have you done any troubleshooting on your fonts?

15 Messages

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270 Points

8 y ago

I install every update as soon as it's available. And my fonts come up clean. Looks like I'm stuck with turning off most of my fonts.

I don't mind that it takes a while to set up the type tool. What I object to is that it apparently starts over several times, making it pretty much impossible to use Photoshop.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Most likely a corrupt font or OS font cache is causing problems that prevent it from completing the initialization.

See this page for ideas on how to troubleshoot your fonts: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/t...

15 Messages

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270 Points

8 y ago

OK, I've run your script. It too tells me my fonts are clean.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Keep going with the other steps to isolate the problem on your system.

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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53K Points

Also, how many fonts do you have installed? Are any particularly unusual or do they map to non-European languages (for instance)?

15 Messages

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270 Points

8 y ago

I have a few thousand fonts. I guess I have no choice but to go through them one at a time and get rid of anything odd. I don't, however, consider Japanese fonts to be odd; are you telling me I can't use them?

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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53K Points

Hi Margaret,

A few thousand fonts is probably where the problem lies. That's really a lot!

Odd or unique fonts are not bad, nor are non-English ones. I personally do a fair amount of work with Arabic and Indic fonts which are notoriously buggy. If you have more than a few of the older fonts for these languages on your machine, however, that could also be part of the problem. That said, my machines usually have 300 to 500 fonts from all language groups, including Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, Hebrew, and even Norsk runes and Tolkien Elvish. The important part is that these fonts are "known good" and have been validated. I have also played with adding just a single bad Arabic, Persian, or Devanagari font to my machine and watched it spin out of control...

I hope that helps,
Thanks,
David

15 Messages

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270 Points

8 y ago

I don't mind that the type tool takes a while to set up; I like having my zillion fonts, so I'm willing to put up with that. So... I guess the big question is, how to validate the fonts to Photoshop's satisfaction? All of my fonts pass FontBook's validation, and they passed the linked-to validation script a few replies above this one. Further, I have a lot of them turned off in FontBook, with the intent that I can turn them back on when I need them. Apparently, turning them off in FontBook isn't good enough for PS. How do I keep these, and make PS happy at the same time?

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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53K Points

Howdy Margaret,

The best way to validate whether a font is good or not from Photoshop's perspective is via Steps #4 and #5 here: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/t... . Where are your fonts installed? If Photoshop can still see the folder (or expect fonts there) then Photoshop will initialize them, which is the lag you're seeing. If, on the other hand, you move the fonts to another folder like, "My Nifty Fonts Which I don't Use Alot" which is somewhere else, then Photoshop won't see them and won't try to initialize them.

Does that make sense?
David

15 Messages

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270 Points

8 y ago

I did steps 4 and 5... now I'm moving bunches of fonts to the Fonts DIsabled folder, and PS seems to be happy with that. Still a big pain, but it should be better once I get the not-used-too-frequently stuff moved.

Thanks, David, you have been a huge help.

One question - is this still the same in CC?

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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53K Points

I'm glad this is working for you, Margaret. Feel free to gimme a star so my boss can see! 8-)

The type engine in CS6 and CC is basically the same. You will find that the Middle Eastern and South Asian engine is slower, but that makes sense since it's doing a lot of additional work in the background.

Have a good one,
David

6 Messages

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114 Points

8 y ago

Hi Margaret

Just wanted to say I feel your pain. I have had all the same problems as you from 5.5 right through to CC, so if you're hoping it will get better if you upgrade don't hold your breathe I'm afraid. Like you I have cleaned and recleaned my fonts, deleted plists and manually gone though and disabled fonts that members on mac rumours and other adobe support sites have recommended all to no avail.

It is absolutely infuriating that products which are targeted at creatives consistently throw up problems for the true creatives and those actually working in the industry. Photoshop struggles with large font libraries and don't get me started on InDesign and networks. Then try switching into other programs like Illustrator and DreamWeaver and the like and any sort of universal shortcut system goes out the window unless you custom modify your default list.

I remember back in the day when Adobe took over Macromedia and there was a promise of this new suite-style arrangement which would streamline Indesign, Photoshop, Freehand nee Illustrator and others. I am still waiting for that to happen nearly 10 years later. InDesign can handle large font libraries, Illustrator doesn't mind, so what is Photoshop's problem? If it's streamlined you'd think the default shortcut command for Place and other like commands would be uniform across programs too, but no.

It's about time Adobe came up with real solutions to this and other design flaws in their products instead of the user having to compromise by effectively 'downgrading' their system performance so that Adobe's products can keep up.

Adobe Administrator

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16K Messages

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296.7K Points

Hi Megan, Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign use the same type engines.

If you want faster font performance in Photoshop, turn of font previews in the fonts list.

To do so, select Type>Font Preview Size>None

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

6 Messages

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114 Points

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying.

A) They 'use the same type engines' and yet Photoshop is the only one that consistently struggles with larger font libraries. Seems a tad odd to me.

B) If I were to turn off font previews - which I will not do - that would be me, a creative, having to 'opt-out' of certain features the software has so that it performs to what should be a basically satisfactory level. It is a product made for people in creative industries is it not? Therefor it should be able to perform to a standard that enables creatives to use the product to its full potential.

Seems fairly simple to me.

Adobe Administrator

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16K Messages

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296.7K Points

Hi Megan,

Let me provide some clarification.

There are some differences to how type is implemented in Photoshop.

First, Photoshop CS5 was the first application (prior to AI/ID) to switch to 64-bit which caused some growing pains as we were exercising aspects of OS Xs 64-bit font/type API - which was more strict about dealing with older/crufty fonts. As customers have weeded out bad fonts, Apple improved 64-bit font/type, and we improved our type engine things have improved markedly. AI/ID didn't have to weather quite as much of this growing pain as they wen't 64-bit later after things were improved.

Second, Photoshop loads (initializes) the text engine and builds the font previews not on launch, like other applications, but when the customer selects the Type tool or displays the Character panel. This improves our launch time.

When you say Photoshop "struggles with larger font libraries" what is your primary concern? That it takes too much time to initialize the type engine when the Type tool is selected or the Character panel is displayed? Or something else?

Sr. Product Manager, Adobe Digital Imaging

6 Messages

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114 Points

My Type Tool initialises every 10 - 15 minutes on average whether or not I have the type tool selected/the Type panel is on or off/there is type in the document...oh look at that, it's initialising now. Again. THAT is my primary concern. I could live with it taking a while if it didn't do it so often.

I appreciate your trying to help Jeffrey but trust me I, and my team, have been going over this issue with Adobe support both online and over the phone for years now. And we are on CC now and it has actually go ten worse in my opinion, not better. I found it to be the most stable with CS6 actually. I don't have much hope for a solution - my comment was more a gesture of solidarity with the person who made the original inquiry.

With thanks.

Adobe Administrator

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3.5K Messages

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53K Points

Howdy Megan,

Well, let's see if we can't solve the problem you're having, ok?

First, have you installed all the latest updates? CS6 is rather old and we've made MANY fixes since it was first released. Several have involved typography. To make sure you have the latest, go to Help > Updates.

Now, I assume that you're running Photoshop in English on an English operating system, right? Which composer are you using? The (standard) European and East Asian one or are you running the (new) Middle Eastern and South Asian one? Next, how many fonts do you have installed? Are any of these third-party fonts? Are any of these fonts designed to support alternate writing systems, particularly Arabic and Indic languages? What about free web-fonts, particularly those which have interesting glyphs like Norse runes or Klingon or Tolkein Elvish? A single bad font can give Photoshop *serious* indigestion...

Beyond that, I would suggest running through the steps detailed here: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/t... to validate your basic font situation.

I'm happy to set up a screenshare to get to the bottom of this problem for you, but let's start here with these questions and the steps in the link and go from there.

Thanks,
David