robertpalmer's profile

2 Messages

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340 Points

Fri, May 11, 2012 8:49 PM

Closed

Acknowledged

Photoshop: CS6 PDF import show edge artifacts on tiled PDF images (bug in PDF creation)

When importing a PDF with images, Photoshop CS6 adds faint outlines to the PDF image segments in the file. Prior versions of Photoshop render the PDF correctly. See the attached image for an example.

6 Messages

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110 Points

9 y ago

We are in printing business, too. The upgrade to Adobe Cloud CS6 is stopped, because of this issue. After I read this thread (and saw how long this is known by Adobe with no action taken) I'm feeling vindicated in supporting the upgrade stop.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Unfortunately Photoshop can't do much about the misformed files -- we're still trying to get to the bottom of why the files are written badly in the first place.

But as long as the images are written in tiles, they will have artifacts with antialiasing at any resolution below the original image resolution.

6 Messages

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110 Points

Then why does Photoshop CS5.5 do the job? Besides: I rendered the PDF file in several resolutions - result is always the same.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Again, it doesn't. Photoshop CS 5 and earlier just handled the antialiasing differently (using higher resolution and scaling down) - but that was slower and less accurate than the antialiasing in CS6. If you spend some time testing it (like we have), you can find the same artifacts in CS 5 and earlier versions as well.
Again, the problem is in the documents with tiled images -- someone did not think through the implications of rasterizing those documents at any resolution less than the original image resolution.

6 Messages

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110 Points

Interesting - I will make some tests to get the picture...
In theory I can follow your arguments, and belief me: it's good, that you increased accuracy of the PDF rendering. So much for the scientific approach. But what should I do in real life, what should I tell my colleauges at work. They solely see the results they get using CS5.5 and CS6. Isn't it possible to integrate a switch in Photoshop CS6, where you can choose between the old method (used in CS5.5) and the more accurate new one?
I understand, that the most satisfying sollution for you coders and programmers would be, to solve the problem on its basis (the tiling process in, e.g. InDesign). Everything else is a regress.
But I tell you: sometimes you have to take a look through the customer's eyes. For us only one thing matters: what comes out at the end, fighting with the customer's data.
As long as this problem isn't solved, I don't think I can give my "go" to the upgrade to CS6.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, we moved to the new antialiasing partly to avoid several problems with the old antialiasing method. Photoshop CS6 is rendering the files correctly, but they are not written in a way that can be antialiased correctly except at resolutions higher than the original image resolutions. And we've tried to work around the bad files and find a way to render the images without artifacts - but everything we've tried has failed.
We can't go back to the old, broken antialiasing - and the only thing causing problems with the new antialiasing are tiled images in some PDF files written by some applications. The only way forward is either to come up with a way to fix the tiled images, or to fix the way the images are written into the files.

2 Messages

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70 Points

9 y ago

Very big problem here too. I hope the many complaints get this high up on adobes todo-list. Our daily workflow completely depends on it.

2 Messages

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70 Points

I just noticed this bug exists already more than 6 months...
Perhaps adobe can add a checkbox "use legacy mode" in the import pdf dialog box and include it with the next update? It would be a great workarround for many of us i think.

6 Messages

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110 Points

I already asked for that. Take a look on my complete coment above. There Chris (from Adobe) explanes where the problem lies: it's not a bug in Photoshop, but in how the PDFs are created when there are transparencies reduced to pixels. So this "legacy mode" would be making Photoshop buggy and this they won't do (what I understand).
On all you guys out there with the same problem: keep on posting - the bigger the croud of desperate customers gets, the higher the pressure will be for them to find a solution....

1 Message

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60 Points

Sorry about that, didn't see that comment.
Meanwhile i make 2 pdf's as a temporary workarround: one flattened pdf for print (pdf/x1a), and one with transparency (pdf/x4) which rasterizes nicely.

9 Messages

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140 Points

That's the workarround I'd like to use, too. But what would you do, when your customers send already flattened data - and that's the case with nearly all jobs I get througout the day....
Earlier or later I'll have them educated to send me exclusively non-flattened data, but then again: educating customers? Not an easy thing.....

16 Messages

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202 Points

@mwolf: That is not your fault, its the fault of the customer. Because as Mr. Cox already said many times nobody at Photoshop did anything wrong, its the way the PDFs are written because the new algorithm in CS 6 is much better than the old one. So its not an error with Photoshop, but an error in the way your client writes his PDFs. /irony off

16 Messages

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202 Points

9 y ago

Its an display error in the way Reader handles the PDF -> If you put Reader in "Druckfarbenvorschau"-Mode (Print colors preview-Mode?) the lines disappear.

And every single version of Photoshop before CS6 would correctly rasterize and display the PDFs without white lines. Thats not a Problem of Indesign or Illustrator because since PDF 1.3 was introduced these white lines are present - in every software known to man that is able to produce pdf 1.3. Even if you go the "traditional" route of printing postscript and creating a PDF with Distiller.

Summarized: CS6 import algorithm cant rasterize PDF 1.3 and the blame is shifted onto the creator of the PDF - for using PDF 1.3. Its not dependent on the tool used, there is not a single PDF 1.3 (with pictures) in existence that gets rasterized correctly by Photoshop CS6

5 Messages

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102 Points

9 y ago

Same issue here. The same PDF rasterised in PS CS5 (in all 4 resolutions I tried) is fine, in CS6 it isn't fine at any resolution.

Lots of people here saying the same thing, but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that it's a problem with PS CS6. Not very encouraging.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous comments. The file would be fine if you turn of antialiasing, if you rasterize it at the original resolution of the images or higher, or if you saved the PDF without the tiled images.

This is not something we can easily fix in Photoshop. This really has to be fixed at the source of the bad PDF files.

19 Messages

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278 Points

Yes, you can turn of antialiasing - if you like pixelated fonts and vector elements. These *bad* PDF files worked ever since CS6. And we don't work only with our own PDF files. Why and how did you broke it up in CS6?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous replies. Photoshop CS6 has improved antialiasing. The older antialiasing just rasterized at a higher resolution and downsampled - which showed the artifacts less often, but could still show them.
The problem is still there in those tiled image PDFs, even in older versions of Photoshop.

5 Messages

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102 Points

Chris, please define 'improved antialiasing'. If its causing all these problems then it doesn't sound like an improvement to me. The old version worked, the new one doesn't. Simple.

19 Messages

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278 Points

Chris, please read my comment completely. I don't only work with MY OWN PDF Files. And as you might know the printing companies (all I work with) require PDF/X files with flattened transparency. Therefor I have a lot archived PDF files in this format and it always worked in CS4. I NEVER had these lines before. And sometimes I need to rasterize some of the older PDF files AND CUSTOMER PDF files. Shall I tell them, I am a professional designer working with the latest Adobe Photoshop version, but I can't work with your Adobe PDF files? How come it is possible to PRINT these files correctly (and required), but they cannot be displayed correctly on screen in Adobe Acrobat *PRO* XI and cannot be opened correctly in Adobe Photoshop CS6?
As Nigel said: CS4 works / CS6 works not. And this issue is known for more than 7 month.

1 Message

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60 Points

9 y ago

Same issue..
Still waiting for fix from adobe.. because this is not cool in professional application to have such bugs..
And in my opinion its only normal to have some PDF with flattened transparency..
Its not only PDF problem.. its not possible to copy vector objects from illustrator without those "glitches"
Same with PDFs from quark etc.
In CS5 i could open print PDF and check if there will be everything ok in print.. but now its not possible in CS6.. So only solution i found was to use CS5.5

AND other bug i have found is if you copy vectors from illustrator (5x5mm square) than in photoshop after paste it's in some 104% x 96%.. bigger the object smaller difference.. for objects below 2mm its even biger.. so if you making some web object 20x20px and paste in small square from illustrator.. in photoshop its not square any more..

I think photoshop CS6 have some problem between millimeter and pixel convertations

Whats the reason to add more effects and features without thinking about main functions. World is starting to go down :) everyone wants just profit without giving enough quality...

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The paste problem is probably because you have the "snap transforms to pixel boundaries" enabled - which will distort fractional pixel dimensions to whole pixel dimensions (as designers asked).

And we still haven't gotten the PDF folks on the other teams to discuss the problem (despite the rasterization folks repeatedly telling them that the files can't be rasterized without artifacts).

9 Messages

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140 Points

9 y ago

So, after my last post is allready one (in numbers: 1) month old, I celebrate this anniversary with a little "remind me"-post.
Chris: if you still read this thread, can you tell us something new? I think everybody who subscribes to this thread is eager to hear something from Adobe!

Regards,

Markus

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No news, unfortunately. I keep trying to push the other groups to work on a solution, and several of them just don't get it.

89 Messages

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2K Points

Keep up the good work Chris! :)

I'm just grateful that we are slowly moving away from PDF 1.3 so that transparency flattening can die a fiery death... ;)

1 Message

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60 Points

9 y ago

Hi Guys, I too have been tearing my hair out with this one...its making me double handle files to try and work around. Say for example i have to send a high res PDF ad to a publication normally Id use indesign, print to postscript and distill my files with the PDFX 4:1.3 settings to flatten transparency properly for certain RIPS. In many cases a plain press ready pdf file is not suitable and I need to flatten in this 1.3 setting.
Some end users of my file may prefer to flatten all their supplied files by converting them in photoshop before printing to save any issues. Im scared im going to send a PDF, that may pass photoshop on the otehr end and end up with these lines and marks, so im supplying a PDF and a flat JPEG in some cases to the publications. Silly, but safe! I have noticed if I export from indesign with the regular 'press' setting and open that PDF in photoshop its fine and smooth and no lines from the transparency....

BUT if I print to a Postscript file from indesign and distill that to pdf with the same 'press' setting, it will not work in photoshop and the lines are back. So the probem must surely be in indesigns flattener transparecy setting on print to postscript or in Distiller. So strange, Ive been playing with settings for HOURS to find the best solution. What a mess, I hope they fix this soon im on creative cloud CS6.

9 Messages

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140 Points

Hi Kate,

I'm with this thread a while and I must say, meanwhile I'm as desperate as you. As far as Chris Cox from Adobe Photoshop team explaned, the problem has to be solved from his colleagues from the Indesign team.

To Chris / Adobe:
As much as I understand, that you can't speak for another department - please: Chris - do something! We, your paying customers, want a sollution! Or at least some information on a regular basis - if necessary from the appropriate team.

Regards,

Markus Wolf

1 Message

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62 Points

9 y ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this problem...I'm an Architect creating large PDFs and I see this when we import them into Illustrator CS6. It is becoming quite an issue for us. Any efforts to fix this would be *greatly* appreciated.

89 Messages

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2K Points

See if you can export without transparency flattening (move from PDF 1.3 to 1.4). I'm not sure where you are exporting your drawings from, so that's the only advice I can give.

8 Messages

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142 Points

9 y ago

Photoshop CS6 renders PDF Files different from Photoshop CS5 – result is not as expected. If you choose "glätten" (en: smooth/flatten) on import dialog fine lines are rendered in pixel and vector graphics. Is there a solution or a bugfix available?

Kind Regards

Jan

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop CS6 Render Engine Problem with Flattening on PDF Import.

8 Messages

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130 Points

9 y ago

Same Problem! I consider to downgrade to CS5 until the bug is fixed. Correct PDF rendering in Photoshop is a very important function. When the PDF is made by yourself it is not a problem at all, because you can save it in an unflattened version and then the rendering works fine. But when you are working with a lot of external data which is only available in a flattened version, it is really a big issue. Also because there is no real alternative: The renderers in Acrobat or Illustrator still don't have the quality the one in Photoshop has, respectively had. It is not okay, that state-of-the-art software has such bugs and the paying community has to wait 9 months without any solution.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

As explained above, the bug is not in Photoshop - it really is in the PDF data (open one of the files in AI and look at the tiled images).

Without the flattening, the image data isn't tiled, and isn't a problem.
The tiled images in the PDF are the problem.

8 Messages

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130 Points

Nope! Opening the PDF in Illustrator works just fine. The File is tiled as it should and zooming in to 6400 % all tiles are matching together perfectly without any artifacts. When artifacts were part of the file, they MUST enlarge in the same way the picture enlarges. When the artifacts still stay i.e. one pixel wide when zooming in, the artifacts couldn't be part of the file.

9 Messages

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140 Points

9 y ago

@ Chris / Jeanne,

it would be nice to get an update from you!
As you see: there are quite many customers punished by this problem.
So, in the name of all my fellows in misery: what's the actual status?
I know: it's not a Photoshop issue. So please, transfer this thread to the proper team (Indesign / Illustrator / Acrobat).

Regards,

Markus Wolf

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

We don't have any updates at this time. We're trying to get the other teams involved, but they seem to be trying to ignore it (and us).

16 Messages

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202 Points

3 minutes before you said nobody is being ignored - now youre telling us were being ignored. Great!

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Read what I wrote: you are not being ignored, we (the Photoshop team) are being ignored by another team inside Adobe.

16 Messages

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202 Points

9 y ago

It actually is a Photoshop-Problem and nothing else. If Photoshop is not able to open PDF-Files correctly that could be opened correctly in everything that came before CS 6 then it is a bug, its even a textbook definition of what a bug is. A feature that worked before is now not working anymore.

We the paying customers are being ignored and when we receive an answer it is "thats not our probem - someone else is responsible"! Go over to the Indesign Forums, they are telling you its a Photoshop-Problem.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, it is a problem in the PDF files. Older versions still showed artifacts, and other applications can show artifacts. They just show artifacts at different sizes/resolutions depending on the exact rasterization strategy involved.

Also, I've spent weeks trying to work out the problems and brainstorm with our rasterization teams to come up with a solution on the rasterization side - and so far we can't. The files are designed to work at a specific resolution or higher (print) and cannot be rasterized correctly at lower resolutions.

Nobody is being ignored -- we are trying to get this fixed. Unfortunately we cannot fix it on the Photoshop side, this is a problem in the way the PDF files are flattened and the image data is created.

8 Messages

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130 Points

What I don't understand is, that flattened PDFs cause that problem, regardless with which application they were produced. And this problem only occurs in CS6, the older versions are working fine. We know, that Acrobat ever displayed the artifacts but that was only a display error, the artifacts weren't part of the PDF file since further processing of that files (for printing i.e.) never was a problem. But In this case the artifacts are rendered into the picture the first time ever.

16 Messages

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202 Points

You keep steering around the main point: It has worked in every version before CS 6 and now it doesn't work anymore. You are claiming the error has existed before - but it seems noone on the Internet has ever written anything about this happening. Since CS6 there are hundreds of people having this problem. Heres your solution: Go back to the old rasterizer or give people the option to choose between the two.

And that you are already admitting that more or less everyone at Adobe is ignoring it is a slap in the face of paying customers.

9 Messages

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140 Points

Hey guys,

please read the older posts, too.
There you can see, that the reason is the improved (and more precise) rendering process of Photoshop CS6.
When you say "go back to the old rasterizer" you loose all the benefits of the improved version in the same time.
Fact is (if Chris is right, of course), that the whole PDF creation process has to be questioned - especially when it comes to flattening.

@ Chris: I understand, that such a fundamental change like rethink the PDF creation process isn't easy.
But think about us (your customers): what do you think I should tell my customers? I think they don't want to hear anything of Adobe staff, which ignores my pleading.

Regards,

Markus Wolf

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The flattened PDFs end up with tiled images - images that barely overlap at the seams. Those tiles cannot be rasterized without artifacts except at resolutions equal to or greater than the original image resolution. This works when you're going to print (usually), but fails when you want to rasterize that PDF at lower resolutions.

I've said many times here: Older versions made the artifacts visible less often, but they still occurred - they were just obvious at different resolutions (and subtly visible even at the same resolutions). Photoshop CS6 changed to a higher quality rasterization system that unfortunately made the flawed PDFs more obvious.

Go look for reports of lines in CS5 rasterization of PDF and AI artwork -- there were plenty (more than this topic). Again, I've spent considerable time investigating this, and can reproduce artifacts in older versions fairly easily (now that I know what to look for).

Yes, the tiling of images in flattened PDFs is fundamentally flawed. And our PDF experts really don't know why it is being done. Only the flattener team can answer that, or fix it.

The Photoshop and rasterization teams have not ignored this issue -- but the teams responsible for creating the bad PDFs are not exactly enthusiastic about examining the issue. We will continue to pursue this and try to get it fixed.

89 Messages

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2K Points

9 y ago

I encountered this problem several times today myself and worked around it by simply duplicating the rasterized layer in Photoshop (ctrl/cmd-j) a bunch of times. It can easily be automated. (Protip: if you duplicate+merge 11 times you will make a 1% opaque pixel 100% opaque).
It won't work for all of you (it depends heavily on the content of the pdf), but in many cases this can serve as a work-around.

This is an interesting thread to follow indeed... A lot of people not listening to the good feedback from the Photoshop team on this issue. A shame the rasterizing-people are not listening yet (could it be escalated above their heads?).

Since the problem is so fundamental to PDF flattening/image tiling, can adjustments be made to the newly improved Photoshop rasterizer to work around this in some way (as it doesn't show up at larger resolutions)?

3 Messages

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80 Points

9 y ago

Chris, what's the reason that the old rasterizer can't be added as an option to PS CS6?

So what the old rasterizer is worse than the new one, we like the old one.
The PDF file may be fundamentally bad, the old rasterizer gave us acceptable results with these files, the new one doesn't.

Adobe has the technology for 2 rasterizers, old and new one, which both have their uses. I really don't see the problem in adding them both in CS6, like a simple "legacy mode" checkbox in the rasterizer dialog box.

It almost seems like you persistently refuse to give an acceptable "solution" as a way to be proven right against the other Adobe team. As a way to use our complaints to put pressure on the correct team for solving the fundamental problem.

(btw, no mean to offend Chris, i respect you keep answering)

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Because we moved to the new one to avoid bugs in the old one?
Because we can't test and support 2 completely different rasterization paths?
And because it doesn't fix the problem with incorrectly written PDF files that still show artifacts (which users were complaining about).

It's not as simple as you make it out to be -- and to solve this, we really need to fix the files.

3 Messages

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80 Points

Ok i'm not into software development, i wish it was as easy as just putting the CS5 code back into CS6. I understand your point, allthough i still hope Adobe will consider to re-invest in the old rasterizer, as i don't see the bad PDF files being exterminated very soon.

2 Messages

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70 Points

9 y ago

It seems to me...

Chris is the only person in the Kingdom of Adobe taking any notice of any of you.

What they really need is some real advertising talking about the pitfalls of investing in CS6 before it is purchased. I tell people all the time... looking to upgrade... I tell them to wait until the bugs are fixed... cos Adobe really dont care...

It currently has an unacceptable ftp engine also in the new CS6 Dreamweaver which is causing all sorts of major problems with hosting companies which is making people transfer using different means than Dreamweaver.

ADOBE YOU ARE LAUGHABLE

Im afraid Adobe has become a joke... and its sad that the joke isnt just on them... but all of you guys too.

Fortunately I am still on CS5... so I can safely say im safe for now.