robertpalmer's profile

2 Messages

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340 Points

Fri, May 11, 2012 8:49 PM

Closed

Acknowledged

Photoshop: CS6 PDF import show edge artifacts on tiled PDF images (bug in PDF creation)

When importing a PDF with images, Photoshop CS6 adds faint outlines to the PDF image segments in the file. Prior versions of Photoshop render the PDF correctly. See the attached image for an example.

8 Messages

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142 Points

9 y ago

Hello Chris, after few testings – here are my latest thoughts about the issue:

1)
I cannot understand why PDF production with CS5 should differ from the way CS6 produces PDF files. For my understanding PDF creation is done by the Acrobat/Distiller unit wich (I think) is a stand alone production tool and independent from the CS evolution steps.

2)
Several testings revealed for me that the PS CS6 render issue only appears on PDFs produced with image files that don ́t have a fixed background layer. From those image files Acrobat XI Pro engine produces tiled images within the PDF. Unfortunately I ́m not able to reconstruct if previous versions of Acrobat showed same behaviour.

3)
Photoshop CS5.1 (64 Bit) is capable of rendering those tiled image files without problems. Photoshop CS6 (64 Bit) is not (transparent lines).

4)
PS CS5.1 rendering quality is very superior to PS CS6. See images attached. Both images are rendered from same PDF file. The 'CS5.1.png' was rendered via PS CS5.1 from a PDF with a tiled image within -> no issue - goog quality. The 'CS6.png' was rendered via PS CS6 from a PDF with the same image including a fixed background layer resulting in a no-tiled image PDF -> of course no transparent lines but poor quality.

I hope my reflections are constructive because this is what they are ment to be.

Best regards,

Jan

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous postings....
1) The PDF production isn't different - the rasterization improved in Photoshop and made the tiled image defect more visible.
2) Yes, the tiled images seem to has something to do with the transparency flattening when writing the PDF file.
3) no, older versions of Photoshop also showed the artifacts - just less visibly most of the time, and at different resolutions
4) that's a different issue that I'm working on (downsampling of images). Long story behind that, but I'm working on a fix for it.

1 Message

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60 Points

9 y ago

It's a shame that adobe has not fixed the problem yet. I don't care which team's fault it is or what you are trying to improve. We - the users - have to pay a lot of money for every software update and we expect it to work so that we can do our job! Let's be honest: most features in new versions are unnecessary while there are still a lot of things we're waiting for since CS2 - but we HAVE to update, because it's a standard. And this bug has not been fixed for 10 months!

So do YOUR JOB and make it work! NOW!

3 Messages

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80 Points

9 y ago

I agree 10 months and no fix from Adobe is a joke. Users do not care which departments problem it is, they just want it fixed so they can continue to work. Maybe if this issue was highlighted by a news website or magazine, then it may get Adobe moving quicker.

2 Messages

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70 Points

9 y ago

Same problem here with lines after rasterizing in CS6. When will this be fixed Adobe ?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the rest of the posts in this topic. The applications that created the bad PDF have to fix the way they are writing the files. As written, they cannot be rasterized without artifacts.

3 Messages

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80 Points

Yet the applications that are creating the PDF files are made by Adobe. This was not a problem before CS6 and as a customer we do not care where the fault lies, we just want it fixed!!! Chris if the Photoshop team can not help, is the issue being investigated by the InDesign and Illustrator teams?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Yes, we know, and appreciate the irony. But the tiled images just cannot be rasterized without artifacts at a resolution less than the original image resolution. It's a case of one team not talking to the others. We are trying to get the responsible team to discuss the problem.

9 Messages

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140 Points

Hi Chris,

nice to see, that you are still motivated to look after this thread!
As far as I can reckon this, I'd say: not a single word more spent here will speed up or change things in any way.
Tell me (or ask your boss, or the big kahuna at Adobe Systems) one thing: what should I do with the jobs, lying around here (except exploring the 1001 workarounds for the problematic files)?
I'm totally frustrated! I feel helpless and forsaken by Adobe.
As I am an Adobe Cloud customer, I'm thinking about not prolonging the service until everything works as it should (including another problem I have with InDesign and the Windows memory management - means: I'm waiting desperately for the 64bit version).
If there was a competitor on the market - but there ain't.

I won't post anything else here till a solution comes up. I need the time for finding the workarounds mentioned above.

Kind Regards (at least to you Chris),

Markus

5 Messages

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92 Points

9 y ago

I understand that you are focusing on the Tiled images not rendering properly, but to me it's much more than that. If I have type in illustrator that has an outline of the same color as the fill and I: A. export it as a pdf and open it in Photoshop CS6 B. Copy from illustrator and paste as a smart object what I get is a tiny hairline between the fill and the copy. this is just one of the issues. Unless there is something that I am not understanding, how is this tiled?

Since Creative cloud came out I kept a copy of CS5 on my drive JUST TO DO SMART OBJECTS/RASTERIZE PDF's.

this has been a very long time for something that I deal with alot.

22 Messages

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302 Points

8 y ago

In fb page you (Adobe) ask me what is the problem with transparency flattener in Photoshop CS6. I give you some screens.

First I go to Illustrator (but we may use InDesign also) and create CMYK file with gradient background with object and I use effect with transparency (drop shadow):


Now I want to save this file to the pdf format. I want to use a standard PDF/X-1a:2001 and I choose in transparency flattener High quality option. I must use PDF/X-1a so don't give me advice "use PDF/X-4" please.

Now I open pdf in Acrobat Pro. Sometimes as you know Acrobat show thin line, but these line or lines which represent transparency flattening are safe in printing. In these case even Acrobat does not show any lines:


Now funny part. When I open pdf in PS CS6 (because I want to be sure that thin lines really don't exist) I watch something like this (red arrows are my markers):


I report bug in case #0183607842 (Thursday, September 6, 2012). I got the answer that the case describes a bug and in following update you will fix this bug. As you see nothing has changed.

All test files you can also download here:
http://speedy.sh/hKqFP/transp-flat.7z

UPDATE INFO
My friends managed to open the file on their computers and here are the results of the tests:

PS CS 6 on MAC (bug exist)


PS CS5 (everything is fine)


This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Transparency flattener rendering problem in PS CS6 when open PDF/X-1a files.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

this is a well known problem - unfortunately the problem is in the software that created the PDF file, not the software rendering the PDF.
Basically the way the image is handled doesn't allow for correct rasterization at any resolution other than the original resolution or higher.

And the problem can show up in CS5 and earlier versions - it is just harder to see, and happens at different resolutions due to the improved rendering quality in CS6.

22 Messages

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302 Points

Dear Chris,

I have read all the answers in the related topics and I assume that not only me but also thousands of the users are fed up with the enigmatic replies from the Adobe website.

You have written that the problem concerns the software which created the PDF file (InDesign, Illustrator), however, this software was created by Adobe. Or maybe I am wrong?

What is more, in the Internet you can find hundreds of pieces of advice and assurance that in the PDF files with flatten transparency thin lines shown in Acrobat simply do not exist in reality. It is Acrobat rendering bug. Suddenly, in Photoshop CS6 it appears that the lines do not exist? So does it mean that for many years we have worked and still work on the PDF files which are faulty created?

Additionally, Adobe have replied to me under the case in the technical support that the case described by me is a BUG and it will be fixed in the next update. Was the BUG fixed?

Instead of blaming the other teams and programmes it would be better if someone from Adobe have finally given a specific solution to this problem and answered the most important question: DO THE THIN LINES IN THE PDF FILES REALLY EXIST?

Today, after the year form the discovery of the BUG, the situation is that Adobe prefers to be concerned with “the new payment system (Creative Cloud)” and not to be concerned with the thousands of users who are not sure if their files will be printed correctly, for instance.

Finally, it does not matter in what resolution is the file opened. 300dpi, 600dpi or 1600dpi produces exactly the same lines. The previous version of Photoshop showed the lines too, but only in the files which were very complex and complicated . I presented the file which is the simplest you can imagine.

3 Messages

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80 Points

Well said Krzysztof, our requests for actual answers and progress on fixing the issue continue to fall on deaf ears, it seems easier to play the blame game. This leaves us limited time to keep chasing Adobe on the issue, as we all have to work for a living. I imagine all of us still have Photoshop CS5 installed on our machines just so we can continue to work.

4 Messages

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90 Points

Or run an extra machine with Windows XP (XP-mode in Windows 7 works as well) and install Photoshop CS2 on it (that version is downloadable for free at Adobe). This solution works well and due to the fact that the current version (for which we paid license fee) is buggy, there should be no issue about that the CS2-license is actually missing.

4 Messages

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90 Points

Here a link to the CS2 downloads (in german, change the region to get it in your language): http://www.adobe.com/de/downloads/cs2...

26 Messages

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306 Points

8 y ago

Fact is, placing a PDF file as smart object works in CS5.
In CS6 it is not usable because of these fine lines.
So much updates and no fix yet...

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, you can see artifacts in CS5 and older versions of Photoshop as well for these documents. The artifacts just aren't as obvious, and happen at different resolutions due to the improvements made to rasterization in CS6.

26 Messages

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306 Points

No. In CS5 it works fine here.
CS6 is not usable because of that. So the "improvements" are not really that good...

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Again, I have researched this, and I can find the artifacts in CS5 (and the customer complaints) and earlier versions. The defects in the files can show up in any version of Photoshop, and in other applications.

The CS6 rasterization improvements just happen to make these artifacts show up more often, along with improving the quality of the rasterization.

26 Messages

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306 Points

8 y ago

Just tried again.
Placing a PDF file in Photoshop CS5 as smart object shows no artefacts/lines.
Opening this data in CS6 shows no artefacts/lines.
But placing the same PDF file in CS6 shows artefacts/lines.
So, CS5 is doing something better than CS6.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, CS5 just shows the artifacts at different resolutions and different strengths because of the sloppy way that CS5 was handling antialiasing when rasterizing PDF.
Please read the previous comments - I've already been over this a few dozen times.

19 Messages

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220 Points

...and?
just because the problem was there a version ago, you could now let us alone and not fixing a BUG? REALLY???!?!?!?!

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Again, this is not a bug in Photoshop. You are talking about a bug in the applications that created the file. Photoshop is just showing the problems that already exist in your PDF file.

19 Messages

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220 Points

But its still a BUG in a ADOBE app, or? And you are telling us over a year now, that the "OTHERS" ignore you and ignore your team and finally ingnore also US. NICE COMPANY, isn't it?
If i would do so with my customers i shurely would be out-of-work... :(

19 Messages

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220 Points

8 y ago

Sorry Cris, but all your answers dont help anybody. You still repeat that the error was there also in previous versions at different solutions and so on...

But the MAIN PROBLEM STILL IS HERE. Because with other versions we could work with pdf's that be became from our clients and NOW WE CAN NOT ANYMORE. OK?

So i think is really time that you and your team start helping your PAYING customers to get back on a working system.

Or am i wrong?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous responses.
Yes, the problem still exists in the application that wrote the PDF file. Until that gets fixed in that other application, the PDF files will not be rasterizable at different resolutions.

26 Messages

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306 Points

But it would be a very better solution to change Photoshop CS6 back to the way CS5 handled PDFs. So just one app must be fixed and not dozens of other ones....

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, because then the other bugs in the old PDF rasterization come back, and the overall quality of PDF rasterization goes down, rasterization would be much slower, AND it wouldn't even fix the problem - it would just make it less obvious and appear at different resolutions.

CS5 and earlier had the same problem with these files, just at different resolutions, and sometimes less strong of a line.

19 Messages

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220 Points

... so why you dont tell us finally that we should shut up, not bother you anymore and live with the problem of not beeing able to open any pdf's from our customers with the "error" inside?
I know that there will be no help for us. Just say it and we stop loosing your and our time.

26 Messages

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306 Points

Of course we want our money back then, because we can not work with the product you sell.

19 Messages

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220 Points

8 y ago

... or you tell us please a workaround that we can continue our work. Because we have to open PDF's in Photoshop and we want them without this white lines, ok?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

You'd have to resave your PDF file without whatever options caused the program to tile the images and cause the artifacts.

19 Messages

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220 Points

THIS TIME I AM THE ONE TELLING U TO READ ALL THE POSTS:
WE CAN NOT RESAVE THE PDF's because we receive them from our clients. With the PDF's that we produce, we can do this, but with all the others we can't- ok?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Resaving the files is the only current workaround -- the files as-is cannot be rasterized without artifacts except at high resolution.

19 Messages

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220 Points

"except at high resolution"
Saying so you mean this behavior?
-----
When i rasterize the file with 3000dpi and reduce it than to 300dpi the lines are still there but not so strong. Maybee rasterizing the pdf at even higher resolution makes the lines dissapear in some cases.
-----

This is what i do in the moment to be able to continue working. In 70% of the cases this is working, but not for all...

3 Messages

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80 Points

8 y ago

Does anyone know if Photoshop CC has the same problem?
Hate to work with CS5 forever.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Again, the problem is not in Photoshop, the problem is in the applications that created the PDF with sliced images.

8 Messages

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130 Points

8 y ago

Yes, Photoshop CC has the same problem. Please Chris, do not more involve in this discussion until you can give correct informations, you didn't get the problem at all.

The following very simple test proves that the artifacts definitely are not part of the pictures inside the generated pdf: Simply import the PDF in Photoshop and select "Pictures". In this case the ORIGINAL tiled pictures are opened in Photoshop without any rendering process. Then you can put the tiles together by hand, simply drag and drop them into an empty file. Zoom in, and - what a wonder! No artifacts on the edges. Works with every version up to CC. Chris, you are not knowing what you talking about.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

I have given you correct information.

The images are tiled by the application that created them, and because of that tiling they cannot be rendered correctly at resolutions less than their original resolution.

And opening the tiles at their original resolution has no bearing on this problem.

3 Messages

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80 Points

Thanks Pierre - at least someone knows what they're talking about.
Downgrade, here we come. No need for PS CC then.

8 Messages

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130 Points

Chris, that is right. But the issue is, that since CS6 the artifacts appear always, even when you render it with the original or higher resolution. As I mentioned before: When the artifacts didn't appear, when you rendered it at the original or higher resolution, then we had no problem, because we could render it this way and reduce the picture size in a second step. But this is not possible, because the artifacts show up on ANY resolution.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Again, the problem is with the PDF file and the tiled images inside that file. CS6 just made it visible more often by using improved rendering quality.

8 Messages

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130 Points

And you are not getting tired in calling this an "improvement". Which kind of PDF should profit from this improved rendering when the most complicated file type, for which the old rendering process was perfect and which was often the only possibility for putting the tiled images together again, ist not working anymore. Probably Adobe thinks, that this feature is not really an important one, but this is wrong, because there is no similar function throughout the whole Creative Suite. It is very sad: I do not have any hope, that this issue comes to a conclusion.

1 Message

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60 Points

8 y ago

Just checked in the latest photoshop CC update and it is still there! Very very disappointing.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous comments - this is not a bug in Photoshop, just a bug in the applications that created the PDF files. Changes to Photoshop are highlyl unlikely to fix a bug in the PDF files.

26 Messages

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306 Points

But it is a fact that it worked before, now it doesn't. The only thing that changed is photoshop, the applications used to create PDFs are the same.
So repeating this does not make it the truth. ;)

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the previous discussions.

No, that is not a fact, and is false. Previous versions also showed artifacts, just at different resolutions, and sometimes less noticeable.

And I am repeating the facts: the problem is in the PDF files, because of the poorly tiled images. Those are created by the app that created the PDF. There is no good way to rasterize the PDF and avoid the artifacts caused by the tiled images in the PDF files.

19 Messages

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220 Points

yes cris, this could also be real and the truth, BUT (!!!) we need a working solution to be able to continue our work. OK? why its not possible to implement the older rasterize method in photoshop as an option? so we could choose? Or just make a standalone droplet/app just for rasterizing the pdf's using the old CS4 code? is this toooo much effort and work? Come on: you guys make this little app in no time, right= ;-)
Or should we try to use GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/) or GIMPSHOP (http://www.gimpshop.com/) for rasterizing the pdf's (and maybe more)?

WE JUST NEED A SOLUTION !!!

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Again, the old rasterization code also shows artifacts - that won't help.

And for some reason we can't get the teams responsible to talk about the problem of the way they make the PDF files.

18 Messages

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236 Points

8 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop CS5 rasterizes "flattened" PDFs without slivers of white lines (good), but CS6 and CC show slivers of white lines (bad).....


When some Adobe apps "flatten" transparancy or effects, they subdivide the image into boxes of flattened pixels. Those boxes actually do accurately butt up to one another, and therefore shouldn't have thin white slivers of white space between them. When these PDFs or EPSs are rasterized (drop file directly onto app icon) Photoshop CS5 handles them correctly and does now show slivers of white or tranpsarent lines alone the box edges. But CS6 and CC both handle this incorrectly and leave white lines.

The has to do with the Anti-Aliasing engine, since if I turn off anti-aliasing, the lines disappear in CS6 and CC but now all vector text has harsh jagged edges. But in CS5 you can leave Anti-Aliasing on, and it will give you both smooth text, and no white slivers on the box edges.

So in short Photoshop CS5 good, Photoshop CS6 and CC bad.

Here is an example file from my dropbox for you to download to test this. Drop this file onto Photoshop CS5, CS6 and CS7. Go ahead and rasterize with Anti-Aliasing on at the default size 8.5" x 10.646" at 100dpi in RGB.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jjr13g5qs6...

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Please read the existing topic first. The problem is not in Photoshop, CS5 still showed artifacts (just at different points, and sometimes not as noticeable), and there's not much Photoshop can do about the bad files.

19 Messages

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220 Points

Sorry Cris, but i repost my comment, maybee this time its not removed, i hope you feel its not insulting again:
Im my opinion you have no intention to help us and you are not even willing to understand our problem. You just repeat the same thing over and over again. we can not wirk with this "improovement" but we could work with the older version. Now you continue telling us that also the old method was showing artifacts... OK, BUT we all had no problems with that. So please why you guys dont give us a little app just for opening the pdf's using the old renderer? Why not? You can't or you want not? PLEASE SHOW A LITTLE BIT OF CARE FOR US PRO-USERS!!!

8 Messages

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142 Points

8 y ago

Hello Chris,

I rendered two similar PDF files in Photoshop CC. One file was generated with Illustrator CC, the other came out of Scribus. Both rendered images showed artifacts and were not rendered correctly (see images below).



But both files were rendered without Problems in Photoshop CS5. How can we explain this behavior? Is the bug located within the complete Acrobat/Distiller unit? Were can I apply to? Who is responsible? Can you give me a link or an email address?

Best regards,

Jan

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The bug is in the way the images are tiled, in the application that created them. I'm still trying to figure out if that mistake is part of a PDF/x specification. It would go a lot faster if the groups responsible would actually talk about it.

And they would show artifacts in CS5 and older versions as well - just at different resolutions, and different strengths of the artifacts.

As long as the images are tiled, they can't be rendered correctly except at their original resolution or higher.