robertpalmer's profile

2 Messages

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340 Points

Fri, May 11, 2012 8:49 PM

Closed

Acknowledged

Photoshop: CS6 PDF import show edge artifacts on tiled PDF images (bug in PDF creation)

When importing a PDF with images, Photoshop CS6 adds faint outlines to the PDF image segments in the file. Prior versions of Photoshop render the PDF correctly. See the attached image for an example.

18 Messages

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236 Points

8 y ago

Hello Chris Cox...

First thank you for even responding to this bug thread at all. There are perhaps many bugs that never get the attention of an Adobe employee. So thank you for having a dialog with the users on this one.

So from what I can see, we have handed you file after file of PDFs that fail in CS6 and CC. You claim this happens in CS5 too, but at different resolutions etc. In my personal experience I have never seen CS5 fail with this bug. Honestly at this point the issue is that many of the users in this thread just are not able to believe your explanation that the problem exists also in CS5. I also don't see that any other thread contributors have seen this happen in CS5 under any circumstances with any files at any resolutions etc. So *please* relive the pressure on yourself by giving us a link to just one single PDF that you have found fails this way in CS5.

Also if any forum members have seen this in CS5, please speak up and/or supply a link to your example file.

Also, I have taken all the examples I have of this and rendered them in CS6 and CC at the very highest resolution allowed by Photoshop (up to 32,000 pixels in either width or height) and it still shows the thin white lines. So rasterizing at a higher resolution *does not* solve this.

John Gettler

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

We've spent quite a bit of time analyzing the problem and trying different resolutions, looking up bug reports from older versions of Photoshop, etc.

Yes, it occurred in older versions as well, just at different resolutions.

All of the PDF files provided show artifacts in CS5 - at different resolutions, and to different degrees of visibility (sometimes CS5 would blur the lines a bit, and othertimes they were even more visible).

18 Messages

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236 Points

We have sent you many files to prove it happens in CS6. Please send us a link to any PDF file that causing lines in Photoshop CS5. And please tell us what size and resolution to rasterize it at to cause the lines to show up.

You say all the PDF that we have provided above in this thread show artifacts in CS5 at different resolutions. Please point me to any of the provided links above to grab, and please let us know what size and resolution to rasterize into CS5 to make the lines show up.

What dimension and resolution should I rasterize *my* provided PDF file into CS5 to create the lines?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jjr13g5qs6...

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

ALL the files posted here WILL show artifacts in CS5, just at different resolutions. How many times do I have to repeat that?

It is not a matter of a bug in Photoshop - in fact Photoshop is working just fine.
The problem is that the images are tiled, and cannot be rasterized cleanly. The solution to the problem has to come from the applications making these bad PDF files.

18 Messages

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236 Points

I am asking you to prove it, so that we can all finally stop questioning you about it, and frustrating you. Without proof, it feels the users of this thread just are not buying your explanation. So I am asking which file provided in the above thread and what size and resolution will create lines in CS5? Please help us to believe your explanation Chris.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Do I also have to prove that a clear sky is blue? Or that water is wet?

You can go look at all the complaints about lines showing up in rasterized PDF from Photoshop CS2, CS3, CS4, CS5, etc. You could try looking at the artifacts in rasterized PDFs.
Or you can trust someone who spent several days looking at such artifacts while researching this problem in PDF files.

18 Messages

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236 Points

8 y ago

WORKAROUND STEPS FOR SUCCESS ONLY USING CS6 and CC:

Short Quick Version:
1. Place the PDF into Illustrator CS6 or CC.
2. Flatten Transparency.
3. Save out an EPS file.
4. Rasterizing the EPS into Photoshop CS6 or CC.

Long Winded Version:
1. Identity a PDF that creates thin lines when rasterized in CS6 or CC.
2. Write down the width, height, color mode of the PDF when you drop it on Photoshop. But now Cancel without rasterizing.
3. Create a new document in Illustrator with those dimensions and color mode.
4. Under File menu, choose *Place...* and choose the PDF.
5. With the placed PDF now selected, choose "Flatten Transparency..." from the "Object" menu.
6. Choose 100 Vector Balance, chose the DPI you desire in both the Line Art and Gradient boxes. Check the boxes for both Convert boxes, and the "Anti-Alias" box. Check the box for "Preserve Alpha Transparency" unless you want to preserve overprints and spot colors. Click OK.
7. True at various display zoom levels you might see some *displayed* lines, but don't worry.
8. Now save an "Illustrator EPS" file. Use whatever settings you prefer here. This EPS file could now go to print or into production. But if your goal is to rasterize the file to be a simple flattened image, then proceed to step 9.
9. Drop the EPS file onto Photoshop CS6 or CC. Rasterize at the dimensions and color mode you wrote down and the DPI of your choosing, with Anti-Aliasing turned ON.
10. The transparent or white lines are now gone.

Yes, we want this fixed by Adobe. But here is how you can deal with frustrating existing client supplied PDFs, without having to keep your old copy of Photoshop CS5 around for the the next 5 years.

18 Messages

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236 Points

8 y ago

Chris Cox,

If these lines *exist* in these PDF files as you claim, then why does Illustrator CS5, CS6 and CC, *not* render them using the above workaround method? Is there now also a bug in Illustrator's flattening engine? Since it *should* render those lines as described in the badly written PDF files?

Please download my example file I offered above from my dropbox. Go ahead and follow with me and my example file as we investigate what is really written into these files. Proceed with my above workaround steps to step 7. Make sure to create an 8.5" x 10.646" box, and make sure the document is placed in the 0,0 of the ruler in the upper left corner. Now "Release" the clipping mask that is around the whole placed image. Now Zoom into the corner of the boxes that are to the right and up from the letter "r" in "Miller". Go ahead and moves those images around, and move those masks around etc to start to see what is really happen.

The images involved are actually overlapping by about 0.005 inches. There are identical pixels on top of identical pixels in this overlaping area. But each image has a clipping mask, which clips it right down to the exact same point. So once the clipping masks are taking into account, there is no overlapping, but there is also *no gap.* At that intersection that are two handles from two different clipping masks. The interior clipping mask, and the outer clipping mask. *And those two handles are *exactly* dimensionally on top of one another. Those clipping mask handles are both at 3.5538" x 5.8514". So therefore it seems to mean that there *really is no gap* in between the different images and clipping masks embedded in this file. And therefore the lines should *not* be visible in the PDF. And therefore the lines should not show up in any version of Photoshop. And therefore the *bug is in the Photoshop CS6 and CC rasterizing engine.*

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

It depends on the antialiasing methods used. Acrobat also doesn't show much, because it tries to avoid antialiasing images.

There is overlap on the image tiles, by one pixel. That works well if you render at the original resolution, or without antialiasing. As soon as you render at another resolution, it shows artifacts.

Again, we have spent a lot of time researching the problem: and the bug is in the way the images are tiled (they really, really, should not be tiled).

18 Messages

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236 Points

8 y ago

Chris you say, "... the bug is in the way the images are tiled (they really, really, should not be tiled)."

Wrong: The bug is in the *new* way that Photoshop CS6 and CC anti-aliases.

Proof: Chris, you say "It depends on the anti-aliasing methods used."

Your current Illustrator CC apparently then *still* uses this older anti-aliasing method today that *doesn't* cause thousands of dollars in reprints at printers across the world. So if it's good enough for Illustrator CC, why is it not good enough for Photoshop CC?

So the solution here that won't take another 5 years for your various Adobe department to solve, is for your single Photoshop department to switch Photoshop CC back to the old anti-aliasing method even if it's as you say "not as good" or slower. Well it worked! It worked for years. And for years, no one complained about how poorly it worked, how poorly it anti-aliased, or how slow it was. So please please consider, putting back the old anti-aliasing method into Photoshop CC, and let us all be done with this.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

You really are not listening.

The bug is in the files, because they try to tile the images.
The only way to solve it is to fix the way the PDF files are created.

I've investigated this. The PDF/EPS rasterization team has investigated this.
But you haven't, so you jump to conclusions that are supported by actual facts.

The old antialiasing method in CS5 gave worse quality, took longer to run, and STILL showed artifacts on tiled images. No, that will not be coming back.

8 Messages

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142 Points

8 y ago

Hello Chris,

I ́ve got a technical question. Are the tiles of tiled images visible when the PDF file is reopened in Illustrator?

It ́s because the images in my previous post are not tiled when the PDF files are opened in Illustrator. The rendered image shows artifacts wich seem like a line-offset. As described in my post this behavior is not depending on the program wich produces the PDF file.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

if you select one of the tiles, yes they are quite visible.

The lines are due to the tiles in the PDF file, which only happens for some PDFs that have transparency flattened. This is dependent on the application that produces the PDF file.

8 Messages

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142 Points

8 y ago

Hello Chris,

this is what I mean. It seems like a non-tiled image is also rendered wrong in PS CS6+. The artifacts look like a clipping error that appears on a plain image with no transparency flattening or effects rendered from PDF without depending on production software. Please see the following image – download it and zoom in at 400%.


You will see three horizontal edges running all over the image. You can recognize them best in the darker areas. These lines are not present in the original image or in PS CS5 renderings of the PDF file. And they are not about the well known white lines from tiled images. But I think it ́s about the same reason why they do appear.

Are you really sure this is not about a wrong-algorithm-caused rendering bug of the new engine?

Can you – or anybody else – confirm my rendering results?

Best regards,

Jan

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

That just looks like JPEG compression artifacts.
And no, we haven't seen problems with non tiled images in PDF or EPS.

CS6 did render images with slightly lower quality than CC (due to an issue in the rasterization engine).

19 Messages

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278 Points

8 y ago

This problem occurs also in PDF 1.7 files if you place 2 pictures side by side without a gap between them. This is not only a problem with the tiles produced by flattened transparency. If you render a PDF 1.7 with pictures in a row Photoshop CC produce a visible 1 pixel gap between them. In Photoshop CS4 the pictures fit together perfectly.
Are the new PDF 1.7 files also "bad" files, or is this effect caused by Photoshop?

My workaround is to open the PDF files in Illustrator and export them as jpeg or png. No visible white lines.

18 Messages

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236 Points

BOOM! Volker just hit this one out of the park. Absolute proof that the rasterizer in CS6 and CC *should not* show a space when those two photos are placed touching each other with no gap. Proof that this isn't a problem with tiles or flattening. Fix the flawed rasterizer in Photoshop CS6 and CC please. A failure of Photoshop and no other app.

26 Messages

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306 Points

Checked that.
True.
CS6 rendering is not working correctly, so please fix that bug finally.

19 Messages

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220 Points

I am curious what will be the answer... i think i know by now....

19 Messages

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278 Points

It's our fault. Why can't we accept that a gap of zero means 1 pixel?

19 Messages

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220 Points

LOL :)

19 Messages

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278 Points

8 y ago

This rendering bug even exist in Photoshop itself. I often wondered about these artifacts in different zoom levels. And I just tested it again. At 25% a zero pixel gap shows the layer underneath.

18 Messages

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236 Points

I wonder if in this specific case (displaying on a monitor in Photoshop) if that is just a visual display rendering bug, since it goes away at closer zoom levels. I'm cool with monitor display anomalies that don't print. I just can't have lines that actually print and cost me thousands of dollars in redos of my company's money that Adobe caused us.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, that is something completely unrelated. It has to do with using downsampled images for previews at zoom levels below 100%. You can't downsample and maintain exact edges for different layers at all positions.

19 Messages

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278 Points

8 y ago

I produced two PDF versions from one InDesign Document, PDF 1.3 and 1.7 with CMYK transparency mode. And there is absolute no gap between those frames. Zero is zero or what else?
In the bottom row there is the same picture of the stars just in a new frame. And there is a red frame underneath all of them. The third frame in this row is just 100 k and set to overprint.

Honestly - which rendering is the best result?

A good solution must solve the problems of given circumstances.

2 Messages

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82 Points

8 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Rayas al convertir un pdf (acoplado transparencias) a imagen.


Hola, cuando intento rasterizar (convertir un pdf a imagen), y el pdf esta acoplado las transparencias, la imagen resultante presenta rayas en los lugares donde se ha acoplado transparencia en el pdf.

2 Messages

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82 Points

8 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
rendering bug with X3-PDFs.


There is a rendering-bug with PDF-files since photoshop CS 6 (Win 32 and 64 bit and Mac) ist launched: Opening and rendering a typical X3-PDF-file with transparency-reduced graphics, photoshop CS6 renders empty one-pixel-lines along the stitches of the sliced graphics. No bugfix and no update fixed the problem!

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

The problem is in the way the PDF files are written, with the images divided into tiles. They can't be rendered correctly except at the original resolution of the images. Please see the previous responses in this topic.

19 Messages

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278 Points

These white lines also occur in 1.7 PDF files between two images with NO GAP between them.
And even Adobe Acrobat PRO cannot save useable image files (no antialiasing for text for example.).
The only way is to export it from Illustrator as an .jpg and NOT as a .psd
It is a pity that Adobe as the inventor of PDF is not able to give us a proper way to convert PDF to image files.

18 Messages

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236 Points

8 y ago

Chris Cox,

Please re-assign this thread to someone else at Adobe customer support who can look at this topic with fresh eyes and an open mind. After proving to you time and time again that this is a Photoshop rendering issue, you just build a brick wall around you with your ears plugged and your eyes closed which isn't going to help make Photoshop better. I'm sure your sick and tired of listening to us, so for your benefit and ours, seriously, have *someone else* take a look at this topic please.

2 Messages

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60 Points

8 y ago

Chris,

I have been following this thread for a while, checking in from time to time to see if there are any new developments. It is frustrating to see so many people being defiant to what you have to say.

I work with AutoCAD and print to PDF so i can import into photoshop for rendering. (I know there are rendering programs available through Autodesk, but still prefer to render with photshop.) Because of printing purely black & white line drawings from AutoCAD, the artifacts I experience appear as more of a halo or offset image as opposed to a white line.

I have been using CS5 as a workaround to this problem until I hear of a fix to the software. The artifacts that appear in the detailed areas of my line drawings are unbearable...HOWEVER, I do also experience the artifacts in CS5. They are something I have always noticed, but I have been able to remedy the problems with far less hassle in CS5 than in CS6. I just wanted to throw this out there, since so many people don't believe the artifacts were always there or even noticable. I will email you some example files in the form of original pdf, psd from CS5 & CS6, as well as corresponding jpgs.

2 Messages

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60 Points

8 y ago

Chris,

I have been following this thread for a while, checking in from time to time to see if there are any new developments. It is frustrating to see so many people being defiant to what you have to say.

I work with AutoCAD and print to PDF so i can import into photoshop for rendering. (I know there are rendering programs available through Autodesk, but still prefer to render with photshop.) Because of printing purely black & white line drawings from AutoCAD, the artifacts I experience appear as more of a halo or offset image as opposed to a white line.

I have been using CS5 as a workaround to this problem until I hear of a fix to the software. The artifacts that appear in the detailed areas of my line drawings are unbearable...HOWEVER, I do also experience the artifacts in CS5. They are something I have always noticed, but I have been able to remedy the problems with far less hassle in CS5 than in CS6. I just wanted to throw this out there, since so many people don't believe the artifacts were always there or even noticable. I will email you some example files in the form of original pdf, psd from CS5 & CS6, as well as corresponding jpgs.

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

Thanks. We are still trying to get this solved, but it has been incredibly difficult to get the PDF folks responsible to sit down and talk about their mistake in tiling images and how to solve it.

3 Messages

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80 Points

Chris, never thougt about, that the way how PDF 1.3 is built isn't a mistake in the application but rather an inadequateness in the specification of PDF 1.3 or PostScript? Do you really know every detail of the Adobe graphic model, especially the older versions? And did the guys, who built the new rendering process in Photoshop concern about it? And if there is an inadequateness in the specification of PDF, don't you agree, that a rendering process, built from the same company has to be able to deal with it?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

We're still working on the details: is it really a fault in the PDF/X spec, or just the implementations? But so far we can't get the parties together to discuss it.

3 Messages

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80 Points

Maybe there is a fault in translation of the dimensions. In PostScript there are only pt dimensions used and when they are translated into pixel dimensions through the rendering process there maybe are rounding differencies which show up in 1 pixel wide spaces. This could explain the fact, that the problem is resolution-dependent. And it could explain the fact, that no one feels responsible for this, because it is a matter of opinion, which part is named faulty. It's not a bug, it's a feature!?

15.1K Messages

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195.8K Points

No, it's not the dimension conversions - even if the layout is specified in pixels, it still fails. The problem is that the tiled images are done in such a way that they don't work with antialiasing or resampling, unless they're rasterized at exactly their original resolution (must match the pixel grid exactly).

4 Messages

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92 Points

8 y ago

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
PHOTOSHOP CC: pdfx3-import errors.


If I export am pdf-x3-file from InDesignCC and import this file into Photoshop CS5 the document just looks like it has to look. If I import this file to Photoshop CC the doc has a lot of defect lines in areas of transparencies. Does anybody has the same problem?